"In order to hold on to democracy, I believe all the parties will have to put aside their differences and work side by side with one another", says Barrister Kamal Azfar, Head of the Manifesto Committee - PPP, in an exclusive interview with SouthAsia Magazine.
People claim that U.S does not want Pakistan to stabilize, to what extent do you agree with this statement? Do you believe that U.S really does want democracy in Pakistan?
I wouldn’t go to the extent of blaming any foreign country for what has happened in Pakistan. I don’t think that there is any link between the military intervention in Pakistan and the US. It all depends on the mindset of the chief of the army staff. Pakistan has so far have had 10 Army Chief among which four of them led a military coup, where as six did not. So, I don’t think that US is in any way related with the military coups. I’ll repeat myself; it all depends on the mindset of the chief of army staff.
There have been three instances when the US has had interests in using the military alliance in Pakistan. One was during the height of the Cold War. Second was when Russia invaded Afghanistan. At that point we saw the most active collaboration between CIA and the Pakistan army. There is a book on this issue as well which goes by the name "Charlie Wilson’s War". Third time was during the war against terror in Afghanistan. Musharraf, at that time had already taken over, and he extended full cooperation to the US for the war against terrorism.
I personally feel that the States had no interest in supporting Musharraf. In this context, the US would welcome the results of the election. In other words, I would say that as far as the long term policy goes, the US doesn’t have any interest in military rule. They only supported the military because of their cooperation against the war on terror.
Transition to democracy has been going on since the existence of Pakistan. How has democracy evolved in all these years?
Democracy has evolved towards more of a consensus. There are only five major political parties in Pakistan and the people are very consistent in their voting behavior. They vote only for these major parties and have been doing that since a long time. In the past what was sad was that the parties had no tolerance for each other. There was bitterness among the party members of all the political parties. However, now things have changed. We are working towards forming a coalition government and are ready to work hand in hand. I feel that the chances for democracy are better now. And after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, we have become wiser now. The people of Pakistan have voted against extremism and for liberal and moderate parties. And the stage is set for a coalition government.
Challenges for the government are very strong. Challenges like rising inflation, trade deficit, shortage of power and gas. All these problems are staring the government in its face. Moreover, there has been a lot of institutional damage in the time of the last government. That needs to be restored as well.
The last year was a traumatic year for Pakistan. Benazir Bhutto was assassinated; Justice Iftikhar Chaudhary was dismissed along with more than 60 high court judges. Moreover, the incidences of riots and bomb blasts increased. So during the last government’s regime the whole structure has been made fragile and now we are looking forward from the balance of power, where each organ of the state will concentrate on the duty they are entrusted with.
I hope that we are wiser now, and the coalition government will emerge as a ray of hope for all other Muslim countries as well.
Do you think that the West has any interest in supporting the army coups in Pakistan?
I don’t necessary see that the West having any interest in supporting the military regime. The dictators are interested in their own survival and for that they sell themselves to the west. It is not easy to ride a tiger and to get off is far more difficult. Hence I believe that the west would rather be more supportive of an elected leader than a military dictator.
Unlike India, why has it been so that the system of government kept on shifting from military rule to democracy and so on?
There are various reasons and we can’t compare ourselves to India. Soon after the partition, we lost Mr. Jinnah, while the back bone of India, Mr. Nehru survived for nearly 17 whole years. He was able to make a proper system of politics in India. We, after losing Mr. Jinnah were at a vulnerable state.
Also the legitimacy of the elections has been questioned many a times in Pakistan. I guess, there are only three elections which have been accepted by almost everyone. The election of 1970, 1988 and the recent 18th February one. So I believe if we’d have had the guidance of Mr. Jinnah, we’d have much stronger bases and they wouldn’t have succumbed to these dictators so often.
However the people of Pakistan have made the change possible once again. They voted for the parties which don’t believe in violence and extremism. Therefore now we are looking forward to a positive future specially since now the political parties are more tolerant and this is a very big change in the dynamics of Pakistani politics.
So far every party has accepted the election results, except Ghinva Bhutto. According to her the elections were rigged. What will you say about that?
I believe that it’s the personal perception of the person who faces defeat. None of the parties, which are represented in the parliament, claimed that the elections were rigged. Every party including the nation accepted the results of this election. This proves that they trust us.
Now when the election results are out, what are the plans of PPP in this regard?
Now that the process has started, there are various outcomes. It is too early to decide upon any sort of plans. No party has come out as a winner yet and is in no position to form a central government. Whatever happens will be decided once the coalition government has been officially formed. The provincial governments will reflect part of the political compromise. The only thing which I believe right now is that we have to accept the pluralistic nature of our society and ought to learn to work and live with each other.
PML-N has declined any sort of settlement with Pervaiz Musharraf. Does PPP have any plans to have a talk with the President?
I think we have similar, if not identical stands on issues which need to settled. We believe in the charter of democracy that independence of judiciary and so on. We’d like to see the judges restored. Still the work is in process and it is too early to predict anything. We are unsure if we are going to talk to Pervaiz Musharraf or plan to work hand-in-hand with him. To be honest, we’d be rather too reluctant.
When Benazir came to Pakistan after almost eight years, she knew that her life was in danger. Why did she still go ahead with her plans? And do you believe that the present government was responsible?
I believe the word that describes, why she did it, is courage. She was a courageous woman who was not afraid of death even. Nothing could have stopped her from reaching out to the masses that she was representing. She was a martyr of democracy, she had so much faith in her beliefs that she wouldn’t let anything stand between them and I believe it is her blood that paid off and democracy, at last is restored in Pakistan. As for the government I will blame them to a certain extent as they did not provide adequate security measures for Benazir. When Shaukat Aziz was a candidate and was threatened, he was provided with the same sort of protocol that an acting Prime Minister or President would get, then why wasn’t such protocol provided to Benazir, even though she the most likely candidate. So I believe there was negligence by the government which sadly led to her martyrdom.
After the transition to democracy, at present, what is the key element which will hold it together?
Right now is the time for the ultimate test for all political parties. They need to put aside their differences and work collectively to sustain democracy and stability in the country. I believe it is the mindset of the people that plays the most important role, if all the parties would stick to the stance of democracy and would let each other complete their tenures in a peaceful manner. I believe if the parties stick to article 38 of the constitution, which clearly states their responsibilities and duties towards the people, then naturally the people wouldn’t have anything to complain about and neither would the opposition have a chance to point fingers at the ruling party. The people have long suffered at the hands of dictators and it is time that the parties start delivering their promises, as long as the parties stand up to their expectations and fulfil their promises, democracy will prevail.
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